[Rockhounds] Help! Has anyone ever seenor heardof blackTorbernite?

Mon Mar 16 04:25:50 PDT 2009

Holding your breath makes you turn blue and, if you persist, black. Maybe
that's what happened to the torbernite ;-)))))

Axel

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com
[mailto:rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com]
> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski
> Verzonden: maandag 16 maart 2009 3:36
> Aan: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors
> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Help! Has anyone ever seenor heardof
blackTorbernite?
> 
> Some of the species in my collection are like that. A tiny fragment
> mounted in a gel-cap and you need a 10x lens to even see the mineral.
> That is what happens when you become a systematic collector and start
> getting into the rare minerals.
> 
> Vochtenite is even rarer than Painite, which used to be the rarest
> mineral. Two pea sized specimens were found in 1954 in river gravel,
> IIRC, and a third was found around 1970. Then 30 some years later the
> source was discovered by accident and now there are two mines producing
> the mineral as a gemstone (it is a Mohs 8 borate, dark red).
> 
> Finding a second source of Vochtenite would be something else, but I'm
> not holding my breath.
> 
> Kreigh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, Mar 15, 2009, at 17:59 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote:
> 
> > It would be something else!
> > I tried to pry al little grain loose from prof. Vochten but he
> > wouldn't part
> > from it (his specimen consisted of some small fragment in a
> > test-tube...
> > nothing like a good crystal on matrix.
> > Torbernite and vochtenite aren't that different apparently... replace
> > Cu
> > with Fe and Mg and your torbernite specimen is upgraded ;-)))
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Axel
> >
> >
> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> >> Van: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com
> > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com]
> >> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski
> >> Verzonden: zondag 15 maart 2009 22:44
> >> Aan: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
> >> collectors
> >> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Help! Has anyone ever seenor heardof
> > blackTorbernite?
> >>
> >> Axel,
> >>
> >> Well now that you mention it, if I get the lighting just right there
> >> are three or four 1-3mm crystals in a cluster in the middle of the
> >> black that look metallic bronzish brown with the light reflecting off
> >> their faces. Possible Vochtenite is probably an overstatement, but I
> >> was already thinking of sending the specimen to the lab for analysis
> >> of
> >> the black.
> >>
> >> Kreigh
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sunday, Mar 15, 2009, at 14:43 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> If you are VERY lucky, you have a specimen of Vochtenite (LOL, just
> >>> kidding)
> >>>
> >>> There are only two specimens of this mineral and Renaud Vochten has
> >>> lost
> >>> his. one remaining!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Axel
> >>>
> >>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> >>>
> >>>> Van: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com
> >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com]
> >>>
> >>>> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski
> >>>
> >>>> Verzonden: zondag 15 maart 2009 20:02
> >>>
> >>>> Aan: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
> >>>> collectors
> >>>
> >>>> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Help! Has anyone ever seen or heardof
> >>> blackTorbernite?
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks Axel! And in interesting website too.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>> All the references I had for Metatorbornite just listed it as dark
> >>>
> >>>> green, and this is definately black.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>> Kreigh
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Sunday, Mar 15, 2009, at 05:57 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Kreigh,
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>> I found a reference that may make sense:
> >>>
> >>>>> http://www.uraniumminerals.com/UTh/M-Torbernite.htm
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Meta-torbernite is sometimes nearly black and occurs as a
> >>>>> pseudomorph
> >>>
> >>>>> after
> >>>
> >>>>> torbernite. There are several degrees of dehidratation and it
> >>>>> appears
> >>>
> >>>>> that
> >>>
> >>>>> the color (pale green to almost black) is greatly influenced by
> >>>
> >>>>> formation
> >>>
> >>>>> process.
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Axel
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> >>>
> >>>>>> Van: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com
> >>>
> >>>>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com]
> >>>
> >>>>>> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski
> >>>
> >>>>>> Verzonden: zondag 15 maart 2009 4:39
> >>>
> >>>>>> Aan: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
> >>>
> >>>>>> collectors
> >>>
> >>>>>> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Help! Has anyone ever seen or heard of
> >>>
> >>>>> blackTorbernite?
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> Hey List,
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> I recently acquired two specimens of Torbernite from Bendada
> >>>>>> Quarry
> >>>>>> in
> >>>
> >>>>>> Portugal. Both of the specimens are mostly beautifully formed,
> >>>>>> bright
> >>>
> >>>>>> green, torbernite crystals, up to 6 mm, standing on edge, in a
> >>>
> >>>>>> beautiful patchwork coating. I have absolutely no doubt about the
> >>>
> >>>>>> Torbernite identification for the green crystals.
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> However, both specimens have a portion that is covered with what
> >>>>>> looks
> >>>
> >>>>>> like black torbernite crystals. On both specimens there are a few
> >>>
> >>>>>> crystals that are half green and half black.
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> I've never heard of black torbernite. I'm guessing a pseudomorph,
> >>>>>> but
> >>>
> >>>>>> what the heck could it be? Torbernite without the Uranium? What
> >>>>>> would
> >>>
> >>>>>> that be?
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> I did find one Torbernite specimen for sale from the quarry that
> >>>
> >>>>>> included Nsutite (which is not listed by Mindat for the locality)
> >>>>>> as a
> >>>
> >>>>>> black secondary mineral, but it doesn't make sense chemically to
> >>>>>> me.
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> Do any of you experts have a suggestion for what I have acquired
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>> a
> >>>
> >>>>>> trade? I want to make a good label, but I'm stumped.
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> Kreigh
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
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