[Rockhounds] ID help

Tue Jun 23 18:37:47 PDT 2009

Powdered topaz mixed with cobalt nitrate will turn blue when heated 
according to Pough.

If your black light makes a postage stamp glow it is short wave.

Kreigh

On Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009, at 20:01 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote:

> Well, As I am pretty ignorant about this fluorescence business, I 
> don't know which end of the light does what! It is the upper lamp of 
> my dual purpose Raytech light. I looked again, and it is possible that 
> the red glow is a reflection off of the lustrous crystal surface. It 
> is a weak, dark cherry red color concentrated at the edges of the 
> crystal. Hard to tell.
>
> Quartz will not scratch this spec, so it seems to me the choices are 
> Topaz, Corundum, or Diamond. As Earl says, the region does produce a 
> lot of Topaz. I have to go with that, although it is not the usual 
> "blocky" prism seen in that mineral.
>
> As Corundum, it would have to be Sapphire and very gemmy, and that 
> would be pretty unlikely, too. (The chances of me finding a huge gem 
> Sapphire are like me hitting the Power Ball Lottery!!)
>
> Other than XRD or crossed Nichols, are there any other definitive 
> tests for Topaz?
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl R. Verbeek" <everbeek at ptd.net>
> To: "'Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem 
> collectors'" <rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:33 PM
> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] ID help
>
>
>> Hi Axel,
>>
>> Trivalent chromium substituting for aluminum can (and does) cause red
>> fluorescence in topaz.  I don't have the paper handy, but I remember 
>> one
>> locality being given as Ghundao Hill (Afghanistan?).  As with 
>> corundum, a
>> quantity of chromium sufficient to cause red fluorescence will not
>> necessarily result in noticeable coloration of the mineral.  But I 
>> too would
>> like to know which UV wavelength causes the red fluorescence.
>>
>>           cheers-   Earl
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com
>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel 
>> Emmermann
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:07 PM
>> To: 'Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem 
>> collectors'
>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] ID help
>>
>> Could you state the UV-band? LW, SW, medium wave or blue light.... 
>> That
>> really matters ;-)))
>>
>> Is that an "intense" fluorescence or rather weak or medium strong?
>> Would you describe the red as "cherry" or more a "velvety" red?
>> Any "purple" in it or just plain red?
>>
>> I think the topaz is out.... That would fluoresce yellow or whitish.
>> Diopside too, that would more likely fluoresce blue.
>> Ziosite is not likely to fluoresce... Except thulite, the manganoan 
>> zoistite
>> which fluoresces orange to pink.
>> Amblygonite??? Haven't heard of any fluorescence...
>>
>> Corundum??? That is certainly a good candidate! The diamond-shaped
>> cross-section is indicative of that....
>>
>> Don't discard the feldspars yet... but try a blue laser. If they 
>> fluoresce
>> REALLY hard in a blue laser beam then it is most likely corundum. A 
>> spectrum
>> would tell....
>>
>> I tried the crystals that you sent me... even the blue "sapphire" 
>> fluoresces
>> in blue laser light!
>> If you stop and think about how the blue color is caused by iron... 
>> Iron
>> quenches fluorescence in many minerals. Still in blue laser light... 
>> I'll
>> try to make a photo, one of these days ;-)))))
>>
>> OK, lI'll bet it's corundum.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Axel
>>
>> Axel Emmermann
>> European Regional Vice President of the
>> Fluorescent Mineral Society
>> <http://www.uvminerals.org/>
>> =========================
>> Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society
>> <http://www.minerant.org/index.html>
>> Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent
>> minerals
>> Technische Realisaties/Engineering
>> My website: http://users.telenet.be/axel.emmerman/FiatLux/Index.php
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>> Van: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com
>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com]
>>> Namens Lawrence Rush
>>> Verzonden: dinsdag 23 juni 2009 21:01
>>> Aan: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem 
>>> collectors
>>> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] ID help
>>>
>>> Aha! They fluoresce a deep dark red! But, too hard for
>>> feldspar.......getting any closer, Axel?
>>>
>>> Larry
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Axel Emmermann" <axel.emmermann at pandora.be>
>>> To: "'Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem 
>>> collectors'"
>>> <rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:51 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] ID help
>>>
>>>
>>> > Larry,
>>> >
>>> > Topaz would have a distinct cleavage.
>>> > It breaks very easily in a plane that is perpendicular to the 
>>> C-axis.
>>> > If you'd drop one of those hey would easily shatter and break at 
>>> the
>> basal
>>> > plane.
>>> > I don't see that in you photos.
>>> > If I were to bet... some feldspar? Orthoclase? Microcline?
>>> > But zoisite and amblygonite are also possible...
>>> >
>>> > Any fluorescence?
>>> > Come on, Larry... make it shine ;-)))
>>> >
>>> > Cheers
>>> >
>>> > Axel
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Axel Emmermann
>>> > European Regional Vice President of the
>>> > Fluorescent Mineral Society
>>> > <http://www.uvminerals.org/>
>>> > =========================
>>> > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society
>>> > <http://www.minerant.org/index.html>
>>> > Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende 
>>> mineralen/Fluorescent
>>> > minerals
>>> > Technische Realisaties/Engineering
>>> > My website: http://users.telenet.be/axel.emmerman/FiatLux/Index.php
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>> >> Van: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com
>>> > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com]
>>> >> Namens Lawrence Rush
>>> >> Verzonden: dinsdag 23 juni 2009 18:51
>>> >> Aan: rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com
>>> >> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] ID help
>>> >>
>>> >> I just got a box of minerals from Pakistan which contained 2 
>>> pieces of
>> an
>>> > unidentified
>>> >> material. These are unfamiliar to me, and I need some help.
>>> >>
>>> >> The color is a sea green, translucent. The crystals are well 
>>> formed,
>>> > appear to be perhaps
>>> >> Tetragonal or Orthorhombic. They have 4 distinct sides, 
>>> diamond-shaped
>> in
>>> > cross section,
>>> >> with  sharp low angle edges on 2 sides. The hardness is greater 
>>> than >> 6.
>>> > The matrix is quartz,
>>> >> evidently a pegmatite mineral. No locality, but all of the others 
>>> from
>>> > this supplier were from
>>> >> Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Waziristan.
>>> >>
>>> >> I suspect they are Topaz, but the shape and color have me 
>>> questioning
>>> > this.
>>> >>
>>> >> I posted photos on http://www.connroxminerals.com/temp.html
>>> >>
>>> >> Any thoughts?
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks...Larry
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play,  but he never, 
>>> ever
>>> > worked in the mines"
>>> >>
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