[Rockhounds] help w/BLM policy and practices for access to collecting sites

Sun Jun 7 17:03:10 PDT 2009

Hi Don,
            Sorry to hear of your frustrating yet all too typical BLM
experience. I appreciate and echo your sentiments, and appreciate Tim's good
info as well.
The Clear creek situation I've written of continues, though there do seem to
eb a few advances back toward sane use policy. The California Gem Mine
(benetoite, etc.) is now being allowed access, and details for collecting
from this mine are available at their web site. (Disclamer: I am not
associated with that concern in any other way than admiring their
stick-to-it-ivness.)

At present, I hope to be able to once again visit New Idria someday. Maybe I
will even be able to do so without a haz-mat suit.
On an associated note, the Tumey Hills BLM area (Fresno County) now excludes
vehicular access between April 15 - November 1st. This has been a major
access point to BLM lands on the west side of the San Juaquin Valley for
many years, and continues to be a pleasant destination during "wet" months.
It sports a variety of easily collected gypsum minerals.

Perhaps some of the stimulus funds could be diverted toward making the
"public lands" welcome and accessible to those for whom they're being held
in trust, or at least providing the BLM with modern tools by which to do
their job with more efficiency, and less frustration. Imagine how the BLM
staffer feels when they must say, "No, I've never heard of MAS?MILS data?
What the heck is that?"

Frankly, I'd feel like my boss was making a mockery of me.

Regards,
                Kris

On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Tim <nospam at orerockon.com> wrote:

> Just a couple quick observations based on my own experience. I ran across a
> similar situation on mixed private/BLM land near Vantage WA. They were
> constructing a wind power site and they had blocked all access with a huge
> gate that closed off the main road into the area. So I parked at the gate
> and started to walk the road (this was Memorial Day weekend and no one was
> using the road), looking for chips of my quarry (petrified wood, for those
> of you familiar with Vantage). I got about 1/4 mile when a truck came
> screaming from the opposite direction; apparently they had a "guard"
> watching the road and he insisted that I was trespassing. After a few hems
> and haws he admitted that I could walk anywhere on the road that I wanted
> since it accessed a huge tract of BLM land, even though it went right
> through their construction site, but couldn't walk through the site, so I
> thought that was fair. In short, the guys on the site don't always know
> what
> they are talking about or conveniently "forget" the regs when they want to
> keep people out.
>
> Also, the BLM usually does know what is going on, on both their and
> adjacent
> land; but if the construction doesn't cross BLM land or use one of their
> roads they might not have a clue, so you probably should have called the
> county and asked for the county roads manager, who would presumably be able
> to answer all your questions.  If a private party wants to use a county
> road
> for a major construction project, they have to get permission from the
> county to do so (i.e., they have to pay for any reconstruction that may be
> necessary after they are finished).
>
> Finally, the BLM builds fences across their own roads as a common practice.
> If it doesn't have an official designation (road # or similar) in their
> roads system, it isn't a road in their minds. Fences have been built across
> any number of roads that we use to access dig sites, usually they are just
> a
> nuisance but occasionally they make access practically impossible. They
> solve two of the BLM's problems at the same time: keeping the cows off the
> main road and keeping the people off of the "unofficial" roads. There ain't
> a damn thing you can do about it, either.
>
> Tim Fisher
> Ore-ROCK-On!
> Email address at http://OreRockOn.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com
> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:39 AM
> To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors
> Subject: [Rockhounds] help w/BLM policy and practices for access to
> collecting sites
>
>
> Greetings collectors,
>
> I have some experience with BLM land, but nothing like this.  Some of
> you have a vast amount of experience, especially with odd situations,
> and might be able to point me in the right direction.  I realize that
> the ultimate answer will be "contact the BLM," but the person to whom
> I've already spoken wasn't much help.
>
> My mission was to find an old tremolite mine and collect some samples
> for a colleague in the USGS.  Since I was off the clock, I was on
> "unofficial gov't business" and therefore was only operating under the
> rights and privileges afforded to every citizen.
>
> I called the Utah BLM office and asked about the status of the property.
> I knew the mine had been long closed and satellite photos showed a
> remediated property, but you never know who might still have a claim.
> The woman could find no record of the mine, which surprises me.  I gave
> her the lat/long and UTM coordinates, but she insisted on having the
> township & range, so I had to go dig that information out of MAS/MILS
> (thanks Gary for selling the MAS/MILS data!)  By the way, she had never
> heard of MAS/MILS either. (And shouldn't the BLM be using point
> coordinates by now, instead of a system in vogue when dinosaurs were
> roaming the earth?)  In any case, she determined that there was no
> activity in that entire section.  So far, so good.
>
> I went out there yesterday, and as I rounded the northern point of the
> mountain range, I was surprised to see a lot of activity--harvesters,
> trucks, and new fences.  As I passed an access road that was on the map,
> I noticed a section of fence across it--not a gate, but a fence.  That
> option was out.  However the map showed another road that would bring me
> close to the site.  As I drove on the "main" county road (graded and
> gravelled dirt), looking for one of the several access roads that would
> eventually take me where I wanted to go, I kept being blocked by fence,
> even though a side road was clearly there.
>
> Finally I saw some large water tank trucks entering a filling station
> through a gate, so I followed them in and talked to one of the drivers.
>  While he was informative, he was also a bit firm in insisting that
> this was private property and they were building a wind farm.  I
> expressed surprise, since the BLM had told me this land was completely
> clear; I asked if he meant they had a lease, and he said no, as far as
> he knew they owned the land.  I pointed out that there were no signs,
> and as far as I knew, no one could block access to BLM land whether or
> not they owned the adjacent land outright.  He said, "well, if someone
> sees you out here without a safety vest and hardhat, they're going to
> come and get you."  At that point I had all the useful information this
> fellow could offer, so I told him I would handle any situations as they
> arose, and I was still going to exercise my rights to access the BLM
> land, and thanked him for his time.  I should mention that the
> construction in question was apparently far down the road, out of sight,
> and the area in which I was operating was nothing but rangeland and
> mountains.
>
> I drove a little further down the road and saw a new cattle guard across
> the final side access road I could have used.  Finally!  I rumbled down
> the road and found my target.
>
> My questions are these, then:
>
> 1.  Isn't the BLM supposed to keep track of current land use?  Why
> didn't they know about all this activity in the section?
>
> 2.  If someone has erected a fence across what is clearly an access road
> to BLM land, what course of action do I have?  Must I file a written
> complaint?  And to whom?
>
> 3.  Would it be worth my time to even call again and ask to speak to
> someone else about the situation?
>
> Any advice about what to say, what to document, and how to file a
> complaint would be appreciated.  Also, if I have misunderstood the
> legalities of the situation, please let me know so I can approach this
> from the correct aspect.
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
>
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-- 
"You never get closer by pushing away ... " - Me

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