[Rockhounds] PRPA now public law

Thu Apr 2 15:11:13 PDT 2009

Don & Jay & Wes & Kreigh, thank you.

Don, you've identified what I've been seeking: A middle ground. I agree that
the real reason for the CCMA  decision appears to have been and will
continue to be public panic, driven by those who prosper from it. It saddens
me to see the "permanent crisis" mentality that has overtaken our country.
How do we deal with this? I'm talking about it. I talk to strangers, to the
clerk at the mini-mart, to my neighbors. I tell them about the roads they
can no longer drive, and why. I don't make light of the issue, treating it
with the gravity it deserves.
What galls me is the notion that I am a child who needs to be lied to, and
that I will buy the lie. I'm heartened that you're seeking the middle
ground, too. If it seems that I'm personally offended, I am. For the persons
we elect and hire to protect the Constitution to see us in such a light is
offensive, and elitist. It assumes that we're smart enough to elect them,
but not smart enough to be told the truth.
Why be offended? Because ignorance isn't bliss ... Ignorance is expensive
and deadly. And, as you've pointed out, so is fear.
Thanks for the good dialogue, lets continue it.

Kreigh, thank you for doing all you can to educate, rather than terrorizing.
We all can point to situations where, if someone had been educated instead
of panicking, lives would have been saved. In the case of mineral education,
the lives saved are usually our own. Bless you for your dedication to the
light of knowledge.

Jay, keep your voice raised. I support limited closures in the CCMA, and in
surrounding areas as well. Doing so during the dry season makes good sense,
and yet minimizes the economic impact on our area.
The people who pay for the total closure the most are the local residents
who make their living providing services and products to CCMA visitors. And
the tentacles of prosperity stretch far.
Remember "the Great Fresnoite Discovery?" Scott hired a Cat in Fresno, hours
away from the deposit. That money served our economy, and made a job.
Thanks for realizing the true impact & fallout.

And Wes, I know how your wife feels. Unlike her, I am (currently) still
physically able to hike a reasonable distance or ride a horse. The problem
comes in the price I will pay for doing so.
For example, I know you've read my trip report, and seen my photos from
Searles Lake. I was able to drive to all of the Field Trip locations on
great roads, and collect "at my doorstep." Even with that, I still paid for
the trip with 3 weeks of pain & fatigue. And this is the first I've said of
it, because pain doesn't make my toil any more noble than yours, or any
rockhound.

I know that I am no more dedicated than any of my fellow rockhounds. I am
proud of our persistence, and our willingness to see pain & deprivation of
all sorts as part of the experience. It's simply most frustrating to have
someone that I voted for tell me that I can't  go somewhere with an existing
road if I don't own a horse, or have the funds to pay for hiring one. If the
costs and efforts involved in restricting & punishment were dedicated
instead to education and oversight, as with the mining safety & (legal) gun
ownership regulations, offroaders and even casual rockhounds would more
likely respond with sense and responsibility, rather than rebellious,
destructive & angry actions.

I look to a time, perhaps sooner than any of us realize, when Americans are
no longer hyphenated (something-American) and we see that conservation leads
to management & prosperity, rather than "environmentalism" leading to
punishment and deprivation. Sustainability can be achieved, but not by
"killing the Golden Goose" in the name of a "fair" level of shared misery.

Best regards,
                      Kris

And Jay, please keep us updated on any re-opening of the CCMA. Thanks!

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Jay Bates <jaybates at rcn.com> wrote:

> Don,
>
> I know the risks of asbestos. I have had a neighbor and a friend die from
> mesothelioma they acquired in the Naval shipyards in San Francisco Bay area.
> My brother was also exposed to asbestos working in the shipyards for the
> Navy. The hazards are there, but they are mostly the occupational kind. The
> risks, and there are some risks, with naturally occurring asbestos, are
> considerable less, as I previously indicated. I am hearing some rumors of a
> possible very limited opening of the Clear Creek area in the near future.
>
> Jay
>
>
> DonH wrote:
>
>> Jay Bates wrote:
>>
>>> State Route 25 is the main road into the Clear Creek Management Area.
>>> There has been 23 fatalities on that route since 1997. Your chances of dying
>>> driving into the area are astronomically larger than dying from cancer and
>>> mesothelioma. What a huge joke this asbestos risk to the public is. Where
>>> are protests for those who have died on State Route 25.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well Jay, you are correct there.  I heard one asbestos lecture where the
>> speaker said, "the cause of death is inversely proportional to fear.  In
>> other words, it's not what you fear the most that will likely kill you; it
>> is something else."
>>
>> People want to ban and control all sorts of things, but you never hear any
>> serious talk about banning cars; yet how many casualties occur in cars?  And
>> don't even get started on tobacco...
>>
>> Regarding asbestos, we simply don't know the exact causes of the diseases,
>> but because of the publicity (thanks to the press) and some high-profile
>> cases, it is high on the agenda.  None the less there is a definite risk.
>>
>> It seems this is a very polarizing issue.  On one side you have people
>> screaming about asbestos and wanting to wipe it off the face of the earth;
>> on the other extreme you have folks who think there is no risk or it is a
>> huge joke.  What I am trying to point out is that people need to  address
>> the rational middle ground, based on scientific evidence. Unfortunately, if
>> you search the Internet, you will find plenty of propaganda on both sides,
>> but you must look much harder to find the relevant facts.
>>
>> However, air samples show that the off-road folks are inhaling fragments
>>  of asbestos.  I am not sure what to make of this, but there are some who
>> feel that it is better to over-regulate than under-regulate.  And again,
>> this is a largely a response to public panic.
>>
>> When I was in school, I helped one of the students do a demonstration of
>> rocks and minerals for the Boy Scouts.  Against my advice, he brought a
>> small specimen of chrysotile in a plastic bag.  That wasn't so bad, but as
>> one young fellow was holding the bag, my fellow student said, "that's what
>> asbestos is made of."  I'm sure the air pressure in the room dropped as I
>> sucked in a violent breath.  The father said, "Put it down!"  The other
>> student and I both said, "Oh it's OK, it's in the rock form and it's in a
>> plastic bag..."  The father said again, "Come on put it DOWN."  The boy
>> said, "But dad, they just said--"  "I SAID PUT IT DOWN!"  And he grabbed the
>> kid's arm and pulled him away.  There would have been no point in trying to
>> explain the concept of commercial asbestos, respirable fiber sizes, and
>> occupational exposure levels; this man was simply convinced it was too risky
>> to handle while in a plastic bag.  That kind of irrational fear comes from
>> misinformation and propaganda.  Yet, I'd bet this father has fed his kid
>> some fast-food on more than one occasion; something quite harmful to one's
>> health in the long term.  And so the story goes.
>>
>> And it gets worse.  There are some schools of thought that believe we
>> should regulate all fibrous materials that have the potential to form
>> respirable fragments of a certain size and aspect ratio.
>>
>> Stay tuned for more fascinating stories on the subject... and keep an eye
>> on the W.R. Grace trial.
>>
>> best,
>> Don
>>
>
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