[Rockhounds] DIY XRD?
J Bryan Kramer
codeburner at gmail.com
Fri Oct 24 07:57:18 PDT 2008
My guess is that it is Bremsstrahlung
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremsstrahlung>
See the section on secondary radiation. That would imply softer X-rays than
you would get from a metal target. In the air the energy is probably
dissapated ionizing the air molecules and you get light flashes. You can see
those by taking a roll of tape into a dark closet and jerking some off the
roll. You'll see blue flashes: triboluminescence.
<http://pages.towson.edu/ladon/wg/candywww.htm>
For some fun experiments.
BK
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 10:37, Axel Emmermann <axel.emmermann at pandora.be>wrote:
> Hi Kreigh and Brian
>
>
>
> There are X-rays generated but what else?
>
>
>
> There are only a few ways to generate X-rays:
>
>
>
> 1. Heat. The longest X-ray wavelengths are situated around 10 nm.
> To
> have anything emit x-rays, you must heat it to at least a few 100.000
> degrees.
> I don't think that we can reach that amount of heat by tearing of a piece
> of
> tape, not even in vacuum.
>
> 2. ionizing atoms (K and L levels for lighter atoms, M,N, O for
> heavier elements) and have them fall back to ground state.
> You'd need a X-ray source to do that. Pulling off a piece of tape from a
> roll would break some bonds in the glue but that would affect only the
> outer
> electrons.
>
> 3. Changing the speed and direction of a charged particle moving at
> relativistic speed.
>
>
>
> All other sources would be some disguised form of the above…
>
>
>
> There may be another explanation for the radiation that lies outside the
> properties of matter . I believe that it could be space itself that
> generates the radiation.
>
> I'd go looking for an explanation in the field of quantum fluctuation and
> Casimir-effect.
>
> It would explain why the phenomenon only occurs in vacuum.
>
>
>
> Axel Emmermann
>
> European Regional Vice President of the
>
> Fluorescent Mineral Society
>
> <http://www.uvminerals.org/>
>
> =========================
>
> Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society
>
> <http://www.minerant.org/index.html>
>
> Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent
> minerals
>
> Technische Realisaties/Engineering
>
> My website:<http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/>
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>
> > Van: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com
> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com]
>
> > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski
>
> > Verzonden: vrijdag 24 oktober 2008 6:34
>
> > Aan: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors
>
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] DIY XRD?
>
> >
>
> > The x-rays are produced in a fairly narrow beam because of the angle
>
> > between the tape roll and the tape being pulled off it.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Thursday, Oct 23, 2008, at 09:55 America/Detroit, Pmodreski at aol.com
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Ah, yes, now, let's not throw too much cold water on Kreigh's cool
>
> > > idea.
>
> > > Who knows, "in theory" it might work, but in practice... yeah, the
>
> > > amount of
>
> > > X-rays produced are probably very miniscule, and although in theory
>
> > > one might
>
> > > filter out just one wavelength of X-rays, in practice what one is
>
> > > starting
>
> > > with is probably too spread over a range of X-ray wavelengths, to be
>
> > > useful.
>
> > > And the X-rays are probably emitted in all directions, not focused
>
> > > geometrically at all, so by the time one collimated just the ones
>
> > > traveling in a
>
> > > particular direction toward the sample, one would again lose 99% of
>
> > > the tiny amount
>
> > > that had been produced... There was also the caveat in the story,
>
> > > that the
>
> > > X-rays were only detectable when the experiment was done in a vacuum
>
> > > chamber.
>
> > >
>
> > > I wonder, if a miniscule amount of X-rays are produced in any
>
> > > electrical
>
> > > discharge, where high-voltage electrons are hitting something; as in a
>
> > > lightning
>
> > > bolt, or even, in a static electricity discharge when you shuffle
>
> > > across the
>
> > > rug and touch your finger to something metal? Seems like that and
>
> > > the Scotch
>
> > > Tape, are just different versions of the same thing. That would be
>
> > > even
>
> > > the simpler way to generate the X-rays for Kreigh's homemade
>
> > > mini-diffractometer!
>
> > >
>
> > > Cheers, and keep at it, Kreigh,
>
> > > Pete
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > In a message dated 10/22/2008 7:49:23 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
>
> > > Kreigh at tomaszewski.net writes:
>
> > >
>
> > > Bryan,
>
> > >
>
> > > The Bragg Equation requires the wavelength. Coherent x-rays from an
>
> > > incoherent source are fairly easy to produce using a small aperture
>
> > > monochromator. That problem was solved about a hundred years ago.
>
> > >
>
> > > I agree that the real problem is the energy. There has to be enough at
>
> > > some wavelength to produce a detectable beam out of the filtered
>
> > > source. I assume there is enough since they were able to x-ray a
>
> > > finger, but it might require a slower scan than a commercial unit; it
>
> > > is easy to make x-ray detection cumulative.
>
> > >
>
> > > How long will a roll of tape last? How many times can it be reused? I
>
> > > would be really happy to be able to get an analysis for the cost of a
>
> > > roll of tape.
>
> > >
>
> > > Kreigh
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > On Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008, at 20:58 America/Detroit, J Bryan Kramer
>
> > > wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > >> Doesn't x-ray energy/wavelength make a difference for x-ray
>
> > >> diffraction? I
>
> > >> read that scotch tape article and it didn't sound like you could
>
> > >> control
>
> > >> much beyond being able to produce some sort of x-rays in bursts.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> BK
>
> > >>
>
> > >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 20:44, Kreigh Tomaszewski
>
> > >> <Kreigh at tomaszewski.net>wrote:
>
> > >>
>
> > >>> I've often wished I could move a lab into my basement and do x-ray
>
> > >>> analysis
>
> > >>> of minerals, but cost makes it just a dream.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Now it has been discovered that unrolling scotch take in a vacuum
>
> > >>> produces
>
> > >>> x-rays.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081022/ap_on_sc/>>>
> sci_scotch_tape_surprise
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Using a roll of tape, a small motor to unwind it, and a vacuum pump,
>
> > >>> to
>
> > >>> produce a source of x-rays turns the dream into a possible do it
>
> > >>> yourself
>
> > >>> project.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> The database for comparison against known minerals is available at
>
> > >>> places
>
> > >>> such as http://rruff.geo.arizona.edu/AMS/amcsd.php. The rest of the
>
> > >>> details are relatively trivial once you have a source of x-rays.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> http://productsearch.machinedesign.com/mdproducts/x_ray_diffraction
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Anybody interested in a science project?
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Kreigh
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> --
>
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> > >>
>
> > >>
>
> > >>
>
> > >> --
>
> > >>
>
> > >>
>
> > >> "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it
>
> > >> fills
>
> > >> the
>
> > >> horizon."
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
> > >>
>
> > >> J Bryan Krämer
>
> > >> North Florida, USA
>
> > >> photos at:
>
> > >> http://pbase.com/photoburner
>
> > >>
>
> > >>
>
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> > >
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> > > --
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--
"The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the
horizon."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
J Bryan Krämer
North Florida, USA
photos at:
http://pbase.com/photoburner
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