[Rockhounds] DIY XRD?
Axel Emmermann
axel.emmermann at pandora.be
Fri Oct 24 07:37:25 PDT 2008
Hi Kreigh and Brian
There are X-rays generated but what else?
There are only a few ways to generate X-rays:
1. Heat. The longest X-ray wavelengths are situated around 10 nm. To
have anything emit x-rays, you must heat it to at least a few 100.000
degrees.
I don’t think that we can reach that amount of heat by tearing of a piece of
tape, not even in vacuum.
2. ionizing atoms (K and L levels for lighter atoms, M,N, O for
heavier elements) and have them fall back to ground state.
You’d need a X-ray source to do that. Pulling off a piece of tape from a
roll would break some bonds in the glue but that would affect only the outer
electrons.
3. Changing the speed and direction of a charged particle moving at
relativistic speed.
All other sources would be some disguised form of the above
There may be another explanation for the radiation that lies outside the
properties of matter . I believe that it could be space itself that
generates the radiation.
I’d go looking for an explanation in the field of quantum fluctuation and
Casimir-effect.
It would explain why the phenomenon only occurs in vacuum.
Axel Emmermann
European Regional Vice President of the
Fluorescent Mineral Society
<http://www.uvminerals.org/>
=========================
Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society
<http://www.minerant.org/index.html>
Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent
minerals
Technische Realisaties/Engineering
My website:<http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com
[mailto:rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com]
> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski
> Verzonden: vrijdag 24 oktober 2008 6:34
> Aan: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors
> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] DIY XRD?
>
> The x-rays are produced in a fairly narrow beam because of the angle
> between the tape roll and the tape being pulled off it.
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, Oct 23, 2008, at 09:55 America/Detroit, Pmodreski at aol.com
> wrote:
>
> > Ah, yes, now, let's not throw too much cold water on Kreigh's cool
> > idea.
> > Who knows, "in theory" it might work, but in practice... yeah, the
> > amount of
> > X-rays produced are probably very miniscule, and although in theory
> > one might
> > filter out just one wavelength of X-rays, in practice what one is
> > starting
> > with is probably too spread over a range of X-ray wavelengths, to be
> > useful.
> > And the X-rays are probably emitted in all directions, not focused
> > geometrically at all, so by the time one collimated just the ones
> > traveling in a
> > particular direction toward the sample, one would again lose 99% of
> > the tiny amount
> > that had been produced... There was also the caveat in the story,
> > that the
> > X-rays were only detectable when the experiment was done in a vacuum
> > chamber.
> >
> > I wonder, if a miniscule amount of X-rays are produced in any
> > electrical
> > discharge, where high-voltage electrons are hitting something; as in a
> > lightning
> > bolt, or even, in a static electricity discharge when you shuffle
> > across the
> > rug and touch your finger to something metal? Seems like that and
> > the Scotch
> > Tape, are just different versions of the same thing. That would be
> > even
> > the simpler way to generate the X-rays for Kreigh's homemade
> > mini-diffractometer!
> >
> > Cheers, and keep at it, Kreigh,
> > Pete
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 10/22/2008 7:49:23 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> > Kreigh at tomaszewski.net writes:
> >
> > Bryan,
> >
> > The Bragg Equation requires the wavelength. Coherent x-rays from an
> > incoherent source are fairly easy to produce using a small aperture
> > monochromator. That problem was solved about a hundred years ago.
> >
> > I agree that the real problem is the energy. There has to be enough at
> > some wavelength to produce a detectable beam out of the filtered
> > source. I assume there is enough since they were able to x-ray a
> > finger, but it might require a slower scan than a commercial unit; it
> > is easy to make x-ray detection cumulative.
> >
> > How long will a roll of tape last? How many times can it be reused? I
> > would be really happy to be able to get an analysis for the cost of a
> > roll of tape.
> >
> > Kreigh
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008, at 20:58 America/Detroit, J Bryan Kramer
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Doesn't x-ray energy/wavelength make a difference for x-ray
> >> diffraction? I
> >> read that scotch tape article and it didn't sound like you could
> >> control
> >> much beyond being able to produce some sort of x-rays in bursts.
> >>
> >> BK
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 20:44, Kreigh Tomaszewski
> >> <Kreigh at tomaszewski.net>wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've often wished I could move a lab into my basement and do x-ray
> >>> analysis
> >>> of minerals, but cost makes it just a dream.
> >>>
> >>> Now it has been discovered that unrolling scotch take in a vacuum
> >>> produces
> >>> x-rays.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081022/ap_on_sc/>>>
sci_scotch_tape_surprise
> >>>
> >>> Using a roll of tape, a small motor to unwind it, and a vacuum pump,
> >>> to
> >>> produce a source of x-rays turns the dream into a possible do it
> >>> yourself
> >>> project.
> >>>
> >>> The database for comparison against known minerals is available at
> >>> places
> >>> such as http://rruff.geo.arizona.edu/AMS/amcsd.php. The rest of the
> >>> details are relatively trivial once you have a source of x-rays.
> >>>
> >>> http://productsearch.machinedesign.com/mdproducts/x_ray_diffraction
> >>>
> >>> Anybody interested in a science project?
> >>>
> >>> Kreigh
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it
> >> fills
> >> the
> >> horizon."
> >>
> >> Ralph Waldo Emerson
> >>
> >> J Bryan Krämer
> >> North Florida, USA
> >> photos at:
> >> http://pbase.com/photoburner
> >>
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