[Rockhounds] Re: Need ID of Massive Moh 7.5 Crystal

Mon Oct 6 07:16:29 PDT 2008

Thanks for mentioning that, Kreigh--I was just about to offer to analyze a
small piece.  I'll contact Jim Marshall off-list to see if he wants to
follow up on that.  I still will take samples from collectors for
identification by XRD, polarized light microscopy, and possibly ICPMS
(elemental analysis).  This is a service to the rockhound community, and
costs are kept to a minimum, and usually on a donation basis.  All
contributions go to our geology student scholarship fund.  All work is done
on a "time-permitting" basis.

Jim

Dr. James B. Murowchick
Associate Professor, Geology
Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall
5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO  64110
816 235-2979     Fax: 816 235-5535
murowchickj at umkc.edu

On 10/5/08 11:09 PM, "Kreigh Tomaszewski" <Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net> wrote:

> Jim Murowchick, at UMKC, and on this list, has offered inexpensive
> access to serious university lab analysis of unknown specimens.
> 
> I would suggest you spend a few grams, and a few dozen dollars, for a
> real answer.
> 
> Highly recommended as a repeat customer.
> 
> Kreigh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, Oct 5, 2008, at 22:44 America/Detroit, Jim Marshall wrote:
> 
>> To All,
>>  
>> First of all I would like to thank all of you that responded very
>> quickly to this message (after I was able to supply a picture :-) 
>> Thanks especially to the people that wrote more than a page of
>> analysis of their thought patterns.  I found this extremely helpful.
>> 
>> The consensus seems to be that it is glass of some sort.  I do not
>> want to push my agenda or (my uninformed) conclusions on anybody, but
>> I do want to make sure all possibilities for identification are
>> exhausted before dismissing this thing.  I am going to give you more
>> of the story now so that you know I am not a crackpot or am I trying
>> to run a scam.
>> 
>> I received this rock from a senior monk of the village from where my
>> wife originates.  He is highly respected in the village and has been
>> ripped off by scam artists before because he is somewhat gullible.  He
>> happens to trust my wife's family so allowed me to take the rock for
>> examination and determination of value.  If I am able to sell it for a
>> reasonable price, I am sure he would put the proceeds to good use to
>> help this rather poor village.  If I am not able to obtain what I feel
>> to be a fair price for it, I will simply return it to him.
>> 
>> Jesus, that sounds like the Nigerian email scam doesn't it?  Sorry but
>> it is the truth.
>> 
>> My initial thoughts upon viewing it under a loop and seeing the
>> bubbles was exactly what everybody else is saying: some type of
>> volcanic glass.  Let me digress for a moment to help you understand
>> why I don't think it is man made material.  This monk, often ventures
>> out into the jungle for weeks at a time on meditation trips.  The area
>> that he ventures into is extremely wild, with little intrusion by
>> man.  Certainly no factories or anything like that.  There is probably
>> some military activity and certainly a lot of land mines left over
>> from prior conflicts.  So a man made source is pretty unlikely.  This
>> also leads me to being pretty certain of its origin.  He has told me
>> the area where he found it and I believe him.  It is mountainous (some
>> possibly ancient, extinct volcanoes) and rugged.  Certainly not an
>> area where many would go unless they are in really good shape.  It is
>> unlikely that he would be looking for retreat in a place highly
>>  populated by man. 
>> 
>> Regardless of my initial thoughts, I took the rock with me to see if I
>> could do some further research to clarify my untrained conclusion.  So
>> I purchased the set of hardness pencils and conducted the test.  I
>> found the test to be as simple as spit.  I cannot see how I got it
>> wrong.  Everywhere I tested, the 7 point slipped without any attempt
>> to "bite" into the material.  And the 8 easily scratched it.  I tried
>> various pressures and contact points all with the same results.
>> 
>> So now I come to my main question.  Can anyone that thinks it is glass
>> find any reference to glass testing out at more than Moh 7? 
>> Everything I can find leads me to 5-6 as the hardness of glass.  Now
>> if you were telling me quartz, OK that I might find a little more
>> believable.  After all, quartz does sometimes show conchoidal
>> fracturing (I've seen pictures and now know what that is).  And quartz
>> is moh 7.  Not far from what this material tests at.
>> 
>> My point is - if this is anything else than quartz or glass, it is an
>> extremely improbable find.  I accept that.  So I'm trying to determine
>> if people's opinions are being formed on the basis of the
>> improbability rather than what few facts are available.
>> 
>> Fact: hardness greater than 7
>> Fact: No pleiochromism exhibited under dichroscope.
>> Fact: conchoidal fracturing similar to glass, quartz, tourmaline and
>> garnet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garnet)
>> 
>> Doubtful this is going to change the mind of anybody.  I have chiseled
>> off a chunk and plan to try to get it identified.  But I must admit
>> that there is some danger in this.  You see, I live in Thailand. 
>> (Note to the person that said stuff like this can be found in the
>> Chatuchak weekend market - that is not true as I am a frequent visitor
>> and have recently haunted the rock shops there where nothing even
>> remotely similar could be found)  This is not the US.  If someone here
>> thought I had something of extreme value and they were part of the
>> military say, they would not hesitate to roll a hand grenade through
>> my front door if they thought that is what it would take to obtain
>> it.  It is not like I can just walk down to the local jeweler to get
>> it evaluated.  While many are skilled in that capability, few would
>> give me a straight answer.  There is a local office of the GIA that
>> may be able to help me.
>> 
>> Anyway, thanks again for the assistance.  I am still interested in
>> hearing further opinions and when I can get some more information from
>> direct expert examination I wll let everyone know.
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Jim Marshall <thai_buyer at yahoo.com>
>> To: rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com
>> Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 9:40:45 PM
>> Subject: Need ID of Massive Moh 7.5 Crystal
>> 
>> 
>> To all,
>> 
>> 
>> I need the help of a serious rockhound. My travels have brought this
>> large crystalline rock into my hands. It weighs 2.15 kilos. It is a
>> dark green, that transitions to brown with yellow/gold crystal
>> encrustations. The green section is transparent / translucent while
>> the darker composition is less so. Using a set of hardness pencils
>> (points) I have done a scratch test and all results show - 7 does not
>> scratch and 8 does. Locale of origin: Thailand / Cambodia. Based on
>> the scratch test, it is obviously not quartz or glass. My best guess
>> at the moment is a variety of green Garnet, but I am not sure which
>> variety. Other less likely possibilities are beryl or tourmaline but
>> neither comes from this area and I don't think either one is found in
>> a similar size. You may email me (Jim) at: Thai_buyer at yahoo.com if you
>> would like to discuss.  Picture link below:
>>  
>> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v177/thai_buyer/
>> ?action=view&current=IMG_0687.jpg
>>  
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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