[Rockhounds] Re: Need ID of Massive Moh 7.5 Crystal

[Kreigh Tomaszewski]

Jim Murowchick, at UMKC, and on this list, has offered inexpensive  
access to serious university lab analysis of unknown specimens.

I would suggest you spend a few grams, and a few dozen dollars, for a  
real answer.

Highly recommended as a repeat customer.

Kreigh




On Sunday, Oct 5, 2008, at 22:44 America/Detroit, Jim Marshall wrote:

> To All,
>  
> First of all I would like to thank all of you that responded very  
> quickly to this message (after I was able to supply a picture :-)   
> Thanks especially to the people that wrote more than a page of  
> analysis of their thought patterns.  I found this extremely helpful.
>
> The consensus seems to be that it is glass of some sort.  I do not  
> want to push my agenda or (my uninformed) conclusions on anybody, but  
> I do want to make sure all possibilities for identification are  
> exhausted before dismissing this thing.  I am going to give you more  
> of the story now so that you know I am not a crackpot or am I trying  
> to run a scam.
>
> I received this rock from a senior monk of the village from where my  
> wife originates.  He is highly respected in the village and has been  
> ripped off by scam artists before because he is somewhat gullible.  He  
> happens to trust my wife's family so allowed me to take the rock for  
> examination and determination of value.  If I am able to sell it for a  
> reasonable price, I am sure he would put the proceeds to good use to  
> help this rather poor village.  If I am not able to obtain what I feel  
> to be a fair price for it, I will simply return it to him.
>
> Jesus, that sounds like the Nigerian email scam doesn't it?  Sorry but  
> it is the truth.
>
> My initial thoughts upon viewing it under a loop and seeing the  
> bubbles was exactly what everybody else is saying: some type of  
> volcanic glass.  Let me digress for a moment to help you understand  
> why I don't think it is man made material.  This monk, often ventures  
> out into the jungle for weeks at a time on meditation trips.  The area  
> that he ventures into is extremely wild, with little intrusion by  
> man.  Certainly no factories or anything like that.  There is probably  
> some military activity and certainly a lot of land mines left over  
> from prior conflicts.  So a man made source is pretty unlikely.  This  
> also leads me to being pretty certain of its origin.  He has told me  
> the area where he found it and I believe him.  It is mountainous (some  
> possibly ancient, extinct volcanoes) and rugged.  Certainly not an  
> area where many would go unless they are in really good shape.  It is  
> unlikely that he would be looking for retreat in a place highly
>  populated by man. 
>
> Regardless of my initial thoughts, I took the rock with me to see if I  
> could do some further research to clarify my untrained conclusion.  So  
> I purchased the set of hardness pencils and conducted the test.  I  
> found the test to be as simple as spit.  I cannot see how I got it  
> wrong.  Everywhere I tested, the 7 point slipped without any attempt  
> to "bite" into the material.  And the 8 easily scratched it.  I tried  
> various pressures and contact points all with the same results.
>
> So now I come to my main question.  Can anyone that thinks it is glass  
> find any reference to glass testing out at more than Moh 7?   
> Everything I can find leads me to 5-6 as the hardness of glass.  Now  
> if you were telling me quartz, OK that I might find a little more  
> believable.  After all, quartz does sometimes show conchoidal  
> fracturing (I've seen pictures and now know what that is).  And quartz  
> is moh 7.  Not far from what this material tests at.
>
> My point is - if this is anything else than quartz or glass, it is an  
> extremely improbable find.  I accept that.  So I'm trying to determine  
> if people's opinions are being formed on the basis of the  
> improbability rather than what few facts are available.
>
> Fact: hardness greater than 7
> Fact: No pleiochromism exhibited under dichroscope.
> Fact: conchoidal fracturing similar to glass, quartz, tourmaline and  
> garnet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garnet)
>
> Doubtful this is going to change the mind of anybody.  I have chiseled  
> off a chunk and plan to try to get it identified.  But I must admit  
> that there is some danger in this.  You see, I live in Thailand.   
> (Note to the person that said stuff like this can be found in the  
> Chatuchak weekend market - that is not true as I am a frequent visitor  
> and have recently haunted the rock shops there where nothing even  
> remotely similar could be found)  This is not the US.  If someone here  
> thought I had something of extreme value and they were part of the  
> military say, they would not hesitate to roll a hand grenade through  
> my front door if they thought that is what it would take to obtain  
> it.  It is not like I can just walk down to the local jeweler to get  
> it evaluated.  While many are skilled in that capability, few would  
> give me a straight answer.  There is a local office of the GIA that  
> may be able to help me.
>
> Anyway, thanks again for the assistance.  I am still interested in  
> hearing further opinions and when I can get some more information from  
> direct expert examination I wll let everyone know.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jim Marshall <thai_buyer at yahoo.com>
> To: rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 9:40:45 PM
> Subject: Need ID of Massive Moh 7.5 Crystal
>
>
> To all,
>
>
> I need the help of a serious rockhound. My travels have brought this  
> large crystalline rock into my hands. It weighs 2.15 kilos. It is a  
> dark green, that transitions to brown with yellow/gold crystal  
> encrustations. The green section is transparent / translucent while  
> the darker composition is less so. Using a set of hardness pencils  
> (points) I have done a scratch test and all results show - 7 does not  
> scratch and 8 does. Locale of origin: Thailand / Cambodia. Based on  
> the scratch test, it is obviously not quartz or glass. My best guess  
> at the moment is a variety of green Garnet, but I am not sure which  
> variety. Other less likely possibilities are beryl or tourmaline but  
> neither comes from this area and I don't think either one is found in  
> a similar size. You may email me (Jim) at: Thai_buyer at yahoo.com if you  
> would like to discuss.  Picture link below:
>  
> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v177/thai_buyer/ 
> ?action=view&current=IMG_0687.jpg
>  
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
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