[Rockhounds] Software for photo processing

Thu Jan 31 13:34:11 PST 2008

I understand your point of view, and I am fully aware of the complexity of Photoshop CS (last year I followed "just" an
introductory course of about 10 evenings of 3-4 h each, which was only a rough introduction without any exercises).
I agree completely with you that if you are a graphic designer you will probably need CS.
But again : for the 50 % more you pay 10 times more.

Grts,

Rik DILLEN 
Doornstraat 15,  B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas 
Belgium 
E-mail rik.dillen at skynet.be 
Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen 

MINERANT 2008  -  26-27 April 2008
Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo)
Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen 
http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html 
Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:08 PM
To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors
Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Software for photo processing

For most users PS Elements is all they need but the difference is a more
than you think. Unless you really learn to use Photoshop, and that is no
simple task then you won't comprehend the differences. I'll list some of
them

Actions
CYMK and LAB
Layer masks
Channels (very important)
Alpha masks
History palette
Quickmask
Adjustment layers
HDR
Stitching
Stacking
Layer styles
Luminosity blending
Calculations
Channel Mixer
Color Balance
Soft Proofing

And this list could go on for another page or more. Not much of the above
list makes any difference to 90% of photographers. But the items above are
all important to people seriously working in digital photography. I'd
actually say that PSE has 50% of what photoshop does. But unless you are
willing to spend months learning photoshop and actually need those features
then the 50% that PSE has is all you need.

And only 10% or so of Photoshop users are photographers, the rest are mainly
graphic designers. Adobe actually has a advanced photographers tool called
Lightroom. But it still lacks many of the items on the list above but it
does have a very powerful media archiving tool set. It runs about $300 over
here. However many LR owners end up with CS3 anyway since they still need it
for that 10% of shots that need the CS3 toolset.

Just to give you an idea of how madly complex CS3 is, I'm work my way thru a
40+ hour video series on masking, which is just one tool in the list above.

And finally, Adobe knows how poor the CS3 GUI is, but they say that every
time they try to make the most minor change, or hint at making a change,
they are flooded with complaints from current users. We know how to use it,
and we suffered to learn how to use it, and we don't want any
changes...period. That's the attitude from the current user base, and I'm
sympathetic with it.

BK

On Jan 31, 2008 3:40 PM, Rik Dillen <rik.dillen at skynet.be> wrote:

> Photography is my second hobby, and I think I can say that I'm an
> experienced photographer (not photographing specimens,
> but general photography). I work with a Nikon D200 and a Nikon D70, and
> for processing I use Photoshop Elements (since a
> few weeks version 6.0).
> Some personal thoughts :
>
> - Photoshop Elements 6.0 costs around 100 euro (!) here, 21 % VAT
> included. This is the equivalent of about 150 USD.
> Possible discounts are marginal here. In a bundle with Première Elements
> it is much cheaper (about 151 EUR for the
> bundle, = 225 USD)
> - IMHO Photoshop El 6 has almost 95 % of the features to "tune" your
> photos for "normal" use. Except for a professional
> photographer with a really high workload, who has to prepare photos for
> professional printing in magazines or who has to
> create very special effects to perfection etc. I think that 1000-1300 EUR
> (official price here, all incl. !) is a
> tremendous overkill. On the other hand I agree that, if you really need
> the functions it offers extra, the price should
> not play a role, but for me anyway it is not worth a 1000 EUR or more
> extra. If the ratio would be rather 100/300-400 I
> might have considered perhaps to purchase CS3.
> - The most important tool in the process of photography is the camera
> (incl. lenses) combined with the person behind the
> camera. A good photo usually does not need that much processing (limited
> to "normal" use)
> - I agree with the fact that it is not user-friendly, and mostly I don't
> find the answer to a question in the help-file
> (including the online help-site), but elsewhere on the web. Adobe seems to
> be a specialist in disguising information in
> such a way that the user cannot find it. But that is the same for
> Photoshop CS3.
> - I had to wait for weeks to get an English version of El 6. I just refuse
> to work with the Dutch version, as the
> translation of function descriptions is totally unacceptable (as for most
> other software, including Microsoft), and
> often plug-ins etc. are not available in other languages than English.
>
> Just my opinion, I admit it is presented here a bit  in (too) black and
> white...
> Don't throw stones, collect them :>)
> Greetings,
>
> Rik DILLEN
> Doornstraat 15,  B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas
> Belgium
> E-mail rik.dillen at skynet.be
> Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen
>
> MINERANT 2008  -  26-27 April 2008
> Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo)
> Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen
> http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html
> Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com [mailto:
> rockhounds-bounces at lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:17 PM
> To: Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors
> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Idria cinnabar
>
> Shop around, you can get it for $70. PSE has all you need as a starting
> photographer. It does not even come close to what a serious photographer
> needs. But most people should be just fine with PSE.
>
> BK
>
> On Jan 31, 2008 2:01 PM, Tim Jokela Jr. <tjokela at execulink.com> wrote:
>
> > Photoshop Elements is like $120 and has all you need. Handy program but
> I
> > wish they'd made it user-friendly, I swear it'd be easier to learn a
> > second
> > language than to figure out anything besides the basics in Photoshop.
> >
> > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela at execulink.com
> > Business: http://www.element51.com
> > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "J Bryan Kramer" <codeburner at gmail.com>
> > To: "Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"
> > <rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 12:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Idria cinnabar
> >
> >
> > > Axel, Photoshop costs between $700 and $1000 so I suspect it isn't the
> > > first
> > > choice for people with $200 cameras.
> > >
> > > BK
> >
> > --
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>
>
> --
> "I know I shall be castigated by a large group of people today, but I
> was trained to assume that art related to the elusive quality of beauty
> and
> that the purpose of art was concerned with the elevation of the spirit"
> Ansel Adams
>
>
> J Bryan Kramer
> North Florida, USA
> photos at:
> http://pbase.com/photoburner
>
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-- 
"I know I shall be castigated by a large group of people today, but I
was trained to assume that art related to the elusive quality of beauty and
that the purpose of art was concerned with the elevation of the spirit"
Ansel Adams

J Bryan Kramer
North Florida, USA
photos at:
http://pbase.com/photoburner

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