[Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals and Common Sense

Sat Aug 11 07:03:50 PDT 2007

I agree that, in general, mineral collecting isn't particularly hazardous with regard to toxicity.
  Lapidary work is more hazardous, because of the dust that can be inhaled. Inhalation of a toxic material is worse than ingestion. Lead compounds, for example, aren't much of a problem when ingested, unless they are soluble in water or stomach acid, like the lead carbonate that used to be used in paint. Insoluble lead compounds pass through without much absorption. In the lungs, however, they don't have a convenient exit, so they stay and are absorbed slowly.
  Even radioactive specimens aren't much of a problem unless they are quite large, or worn. I did know of a gentleman who died of thyroid cancer after wearing a bola tie made from a radioactive mineral.
  All in all, the discussion is another good argument for micromounting. The small specimens, in boxes, present little problem. When cutting, I only use a one inch diamond blade!
  Jim Daly

Rock Currier <rockcurrier at cs.com> wrote:
  In my 45 years of fooling around with minerals I have never heard of a
collector, curator or mineral dealer that has suffered any toxic effects
from the minerals they have handled, and some dealers and collectors are
exposed to a lot of mineralized dust in mines and in the trimming and
processing of minerals. The big worries for mineral collectors and dealers
is that they can and do occasionally kill or injure themselves in crawling
around in mines and mineral localities and have rocks fall on them or hurt
themselves when trying to break big ones into small ones. These injuries are
thousands of times more likely to harm you than the toxic effect of
minerals. Miners and mineral industry workers sometimes do over a lifetime
of exposure sometimes suffer the toxic effects of minerals (cinnabar miners,
asbestos workers, and those that breathe silica dust for long periods.)
Collectors don't need to worry about that kind of exposure. You should be
more worried about eating French fries and not getting enough exercise than
about handling your specimens and living with them under your bed probably
even the radio active ones if the real truth could be measured and known.
Rock Currier
rockcurrier at CS.com
Jewel Tunnel Imports
13100 Spring St.
Baldwin Park, CA 91706
626-814-2257
----- Original Message ----- 
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Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 18:02
Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10

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[Rockhounds-Digest]

Today's Topics:

1. RE: Inquiry homemade(mini) blast furnace (Mohsin Khan)
2. Toxic Minerals and Common Sense (Joshua Stiff)
3. Re: Toxic Minerals and Common Sense (J Bryan Kramer)
4. Re: Toxic Minerals and Common Sense (Julie Siebel)
5. RE: Toxic Minerals and Common Sense (Axel Emmermann)
6. Re: Toxic Minerals and Common Sense (J Bryan Kramer)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:10:54 +0500
From: Mohsin Khan 
Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Inquiry homemade(mini) blast furnace
To: "Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
collectors" 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Both Manganese and Chromite require very high temperature Approx. 3000
degree Celsius, for the reduction of these ores you shall require an
electric arc furnace instead of a blast furnace.

Best regards,
Mohsin
> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:50:50 -0700> From: ashkanelegant at yahoo.com> To:
rhladmin at drizzle.com> CC: rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com; ki3u at hotmail.com;
mailman-owner at bubbleator.drizzle.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] Inquiry
homemade(mini) blast furnace > > dear sir> I need to install small size of
blast furnace to> reduction manganese or chromite ore.capacity(200Kg)> Can
you help me to find best way?> Reduction of Manganese or chromite ore with
coke.> this is my MSc project> Best regards> Ash> > > > >
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:55:42 -0600
From: "Joshua Stiff" 
Subject: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals and Common Sense
To: rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com
Message-ID:
<48aa46800708101355p24a97046s9e09119fc135c2fa at mail.gmail.com>
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Hi everyone,

I realized in the last couple months that I know very little about the
toxicity of minerals. I've been trying to research the subject a bit
on Google (just out of curiousity), but I've found many of the hits to
be either too vague (dust off this is toxic -- as in smoking is toxic,
or like this is drinking arsenic?), or too specific for a normal
individual. I was wondering if anyone could put the subject into
lay-terms as pertaining to collecting, cleaning, and cutting
specimens?

I will put forth my common-sense findings and questions here
(sometimes the obvious isn't obvious to everyone).

(1) The dust off many minerals should be avoided. Just like the
dust/mist of most pesticides and cleaning agents should be avoided.
In terms of minerals, I am assuming this means more the fine-grain
dust sent into the air by cutting the material (like when trimming-up
an azurite specimen)? My basic precautions when cutting/breaking
material are that of shop-class, or when spreading weed-be-gone around
the yard: I wear safety goggles (chemistry safety goggles), a
breathing mask, gloves in an appropriate form, and comfortable but
tight-fitting clothing that covers the torso, arms, legs, and feet.
Yay, I'm a safety poster! Anything more than common-sense one should
worry about here?

(2) Are there common (I know this is a relative term) minerals that
one should worry about just sitting on a shelf?

(3) Do not stick things in your mouth!

(4) My cleaning method for most mineral specimens (although I do
research alternative methods when I encounter something new) is Tide
and a toothbrush. Any minerals react negatively to the body (e.g.
release a toxic gas) when exposed to soap (Tide, Dawn, etc.)?

(5) Any minerals that react toxically when exposed to polishing
compounds (type that one would place in a tumbler)?

(6) Any tell-tale signs you are around something very toxic the field?
More than the obvious (I've wandered around in old dredge and leech
areas) I am thinking some like, "if you are out collecting
such-and-such, it also commonly occurs with this-and-that. And
this-and-that can be really bad for you."

I am thinking for the most part that mineral specimens and their
associated matrix should be safe to handle (as long as your not
playing around with something extremely radioactive). I also
understand that even if something is labelled "toxic" it is probably
safe to handle in low doses. Overall, just curious for all the
chemists out there if there are any big gotchas.

Thanks everyone!

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:02:12 -0400
From: "J Bryan Kramer" 
Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals and Common Sense
To: "Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
collectors" 
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Well it's pretty much common sense, some arsenic and mercury compounds
are poisons for example. But sitting on a shelf they are not going to
jump out and get you. Just wash your hands after handling them and
probably any heavy metal minerals. And don't stick any of them in your
mouth.

BK

On 8/10/07, Joshua Stiff wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I realized in the last couple months that I know very little about the
> toxicity of minerals. I've been trying to research the subject a bit
> on Google (just out of curiousity), but I've found many of the hits to
> be either too vague (dust off this is toxic -- as in smoking is toxic,
> or like this is drinking arsenic?), or too specific for a normal
> individual. I was wondering if anyone could put the subject into
> lay-terms as pertaining to collecting, cleaning, and cutting
> specimens?
>
> I will put forth my common-sense findings and questions here
> (sometimes the obvious isn't obvious to everyone).
>
> (1) The dust off many minerals should be avoided. Just like the
> dust/mist of most pesticides and cleaning agents should be avoided.
> In terms of minerals, I am assuming this means more the fine-grain
> dust sent into the air by cutting the material (like when trimming-up
> an azurite specimen)? My basic precautions when cutting/breaking
> material are that of shop-class, or when spreading weed-be-gone around
> the yard: I wear safety goggles (chemistry safety goggles), a
> breathing mask, gloves in an appropriate form, and comfortable but
> tight-fitting clothing that covers the torso, arms, legs, and feet.
> Yay, I'm a safety poster! Anything more than common-sense one should
> worry about here?
>
> (2) Are there common (I know this is a relative term) minerals that
> one should worry about just sitting on a shelf?
>
> (3) Do not stick things in your mouth!
>
> (4) My cleaning method for most mineral specimens (although I do
> research alternative methods when I encounter something new) is Tide
> and a toothbrush. Any minerals react negatively to the body (e.g.
> release a toxic gas) when exposed to soap (Tide, Dawn, etc.)?
>
> (5) Any minerals that react toxically when exposed to polishing
> compounds (type that one would place in a tumbler)?
>
> (6) Any tell-tale signs you are around something very toxic the field?
> More than the obvious (I've wandered around in old dredge and leech
> areas) I am thinking some like, "if you are out collecting
> such-and-such, it also commonly occurs with this-and-that. And
> this-and-that can be really bad for you."
>
> I am thinking for the most part that mineral specimens and their
> associated matrix should be safe to handle (as long as your not
> playing around with something extremely radioactive). I also
> understand that even if something is labelled "toxic" it is probably
> safe to handle in low doses. Overall, just curious for all the
> chemists out there if there are any big gotchas.
>
> Thanks everyone!
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Rockhounds at drizzle Mailing List
> Subscription Services:
> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds
> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:
> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html
>

-- 
J Bryan Kramer
North Florida, USA
photos at:
http://pbase.com/photoburner

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:11:37 -0700
From: "Julie Siebel" 
Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals and Common Sense
To: "Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
collectors" 
Message-ID: <00c601c7db93$1280e0e0$0300a8c0 at warren>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Years ago (before I even belonged to the list, let alone was list-owner)
John made a post about an old cinnabar mine we were taking a day trip to,
and whether it was safe to take our dogs.

John's sense of humor being kinda...different, he called the post "Licking
Cinnabar". He received a couple of very nice, well-meant replies from list
members on the dangers of "licking cinnabar"!

Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J Bryan Kramer" 
To: "Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"

Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals and Common Sense

> Well it's pretty much common sense, some arsenic and mercury compounds
> are poisons for example. But sitting on a shelf they are not going to
> jump out and get you. Just wash your hands after handling them and
> probably any heavy metal minerals. And don't stick any of them in your
> mouth.
>
> BK
>
> On 8/10/07, Joshua Stiff wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I realized in the last couple months that I know very little about the
>> toxicity of minerals. I've been trying to research the subject a bit
>> on Google (just out of curiousity), but I've found many of the hits to
>> be either too vague (dust off this is toxic -- as in smoking is toxic,
>> or like this is drinking arsenic?), or too specific for a normal
>> individual. I was wondering if anyone could put the subject into
>> lay-terms as pertaining to collecting, cleaning, and cutting
>> specimens?
>>
>> I will put forth my common-sense findings and questions here
>> (sometimes the obvious isn't obvious to everyone).
>>
>> (1) The dust off many minerals should be avoided. Just like the
>> dust/mist of most pesticides and cleaning agents should be avoided.
>> In terms of minerals, I am assuming this means more the fine-grain
>> dust sent into the air by cutting the material (like when trimming-up
>> an azurite specimen)? My basic precautions when cutting/breaking
>> material are that of shop-class, or when spreading weed-be-gone around
>> the yard: I wear safety goggles (chemistry safety goggles), a
>> breathing mask, gloves in an appropriate form, and comfortable but
>> tight-fitting clothing that covers the torso, arms, legs, and feet.
>> Yay, I'm a safety poster! Anything more than common-sense one should
>> worry about here?
>>
>> (2) Are there common (I know this is a relative term) minerals that
>> one should worry about just sitting on a shelf?
>>
>> (3) Do not stick things in your mouth!
>>
>> (4) My cleaning method for most mineral specimens (although I do
>> research alternative methods when I encounter something new) is Tide
>> and a toothbrush. Any minerals react negatively to the body (e.g.
>> release a toxic gas) when exposed to soap (Tide, Dawn, etc.)?
>>
>> (5) Any minerals that react toxically when exposed to polishing
>> compounds (type that one would place in a tumbler)?
>>
>> (6) Any tell-tale signs you are around something very toxic the field?
>> More than the obvious (I've wandered around in old dredge and leech
>> areas) I am thinking some like, "if you are out collecting
>> such-and-such, it also commonly occurs with this-and-that. And
>> this-and-that can be really bad for you."
>>
>> I am thinking for the most part that mineral specimens and their
>> associated matrix should be safe to handle (as long as your not
>> playing around with something extremely radioactive). I also
>> understand that even if something is labelled "toxic" it is probably
>> safe to handle in low doses. Overall, just curious for all the
>> chemists out there if there are any big gotchas.
>>
>> Thanks everyone!
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockhounds at drizzle Mailing List
>> Subscription Services:
>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds
>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:
>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html
>>
>
>
> -- 
> J Bryan Kramer
> North Florida, USA
> photos at:
> http://pbase.com/photoburner
> -- 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockhounds at drizzle Mailing List
> Subscription Services:
> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds
> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:
> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html
>

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 00:38:10 +0200
From: "Axel Emmermann" 
Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals and Common Sense
To: "'Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
collectors'" 
Message-ID: <004501c7db9f$218cb120$6401a8c0 at AxelHP>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII"

Licking cinnabar likely is much less dangerous than heating it. I wouldn't
make a habit of it though.

Mercury sulfide has a very low solubility in water but even a little heat
can dissociate the mineral in it's components. In the book
/dp/B0006Y44MU/ref=sr_1_2/002-4364605-1319247?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186784838
&sr=1-2> Ultraviolet guide to minerals: A complete working manual for the
use of ultraviolet light in locating and recognizing minerals, including
field identification charts by Sterling Gleason there is a detection method
for Hg that uses heat of a Bunsen burner to evaporate mercury. The idea
behind it is that the vapor blocks SW UV. Placing the flame and specimen
between a UV-source and a willemite screen, the Hg-vapor would cast dark
shadows on the fluorescent screen. Don't try this at home folks.
Minamata-disease is no laughing matter.

There is however a number of minerals that ARE dangerous to the licking
kind: all minerals that contain beryllium.
Beryllium is highly carcinogenic. Even in extremely low doses like in the
so-called 'infinitesimal solutions'.

I would also avoid licking thallium minerals or any primary uranium,
thorium, gallium..... minerals. Also sawing dust of those is very toxic.

Still, aluminum MAY look harmless but continuous exposure to low doses may
cause dementia if I remember correctly. So alum is not really harmless ;-)))

Cheers

Axel

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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:54:57 -0400
From: "J Bryan Kramer" 
Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Toxic Minerals and Common Sense
To: "Rockhounds at drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem
collectors" 
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Well Minimata disease was caused by methyl-mercury which is very
toxic. Inorganic insoluble mercury is much less so, after all,
generations of school boys played with mercury drops and there are no
accounts of piles of dead bodies outside of schools. Hatters are the
classic occupational disease victims of disease caused by mercury but
their exposure was long lasting and in high concentrations. They were
also exposed to boiling solutions of mercuric nitrate, which is a
soluble mercury compound.

This isn't to say that you should expose yourself to mercury vapor.

By like many things in the modern world, elemental mercury exposure
hysteria is over hyped.

BK

On 8/10/07, Axel Emmermann wrote:
> Licking cinnabar likely is much less dangerous than heating it. I wouldn't
> make a habit of it though.
>
> Mercury sulfide has a very low solubility in water but even a little heat
> can dissociate the mineral in it's components. In the book
>
>
/dp/B0006Y44MU/ref=sr_1_2/002-4364605-1319247?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186784838
> &sr=1-2> Ultraviolet guide to minerals: A complete working manual for the
> use of ultraviolet light in locating and recognizing minerals, including
> field identification charts by Sterling Gleason there is a detection
method
> for Hg that uses heat of a Bunsen burner to evaporate mercury. The idea
> behind it is that the vapor blocks SW UV. Placing the flame and specimen
> between a UV-source and a willemite screen, the Hg-vapor would cast dark
> shadows on the fluorescent screen. Don't try this at home folks.
> Minamata-disease is no laughing matter.
>
>
> There is however a number of minerals that ARE dangerous to the licking
> kind: all minerals that contain beryllium.
> Beryllium is highly carcinogenic. Even in extremely low doses like in the
> so-called 'infinitesimal solutions'.
>
> I would also avoid licking thallium minerals or any primary uranium,
> thorium, gallium..... minerals. Also sawing dust of those is very toxic.
>
> Still, aluminum MAY look harmless but continuous exposure to low doses may

=== message truncated ===

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