[Muscle] Protecting a PIN with keyed hashing?

[Joao Pedro]

Hi,

Ludovic Rousseau <ludovic.rousseau at gmail.com> wrote:

> 2009/7/17 Joao Pedro <countzero at sapo.pt>:
>> Hi all,
>
> Hello,
>
>> Recently, I've been wondering about ways to mitigate the problem of the
>> PINs, in the Muscle applet, being transmitted in clear text from the
>> terminal to the card. The reason is we are seeing more and more wireless
>> smart card readers and sniffing is a threat that can not be dismissed.
>
> What wireless smart card readers do you have in mind? I don't know any
> wireless readers.
>

Sorry, I meant contacless readers.

>> What do you think of it? Is it stupid/flawed/insecure/reinventing the wheel
>> and serves no purpose at all. Or could it be used in real life?
>
> How it is supposed to work with a pinpad reader?

It doesn't. Shortly after I sent the first email I sent another  
message describing this problem and also that a simple PIN is too  
small to be used with keyed hashing.

I was hoping to hear better (and more general) solution than the one  
proposed :) The idea was to know if there is any mechanism that  
doesn't depend on pre-shared keys such as Secure Messaging.

Thank you.

Regards,
Joao

> Bye
>
> --
>  Dr. Ludovic Rousseau
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